6th gen SS vs GT PP

[Emt1581]

The GT with PP really doesn't stand much of a chance against an SS in stock form either. It sure looks damn good though.

Even though I'm pretty well sold on the GT w/ PP, I have been looking in to the SS and still have to drive one to compare the two. So I don't know a great deal on differences between the different SS trims. However, when calling up the dealer right down the street from my house a few hours ago, he quoted me a price of $49k for a 2SS! :eyebulge:

Now if a 2SS is the equivalent of a GT Premium w/ PP... that's a significant difference in pricing so it doesn't seem like an apples to apples comparison.

If the 2SS is NOT the equivalent of a GT Premium w/PP...is it closer to a GT350 in how it's equipped and performance?

Again, far from an expert, but I'm getting the impression that, years being equal, it's no longer a fair comparison to put the Mustang and Camaro side by side trim for trim.

Just my .02 after an hour or two of looking at the Camaro.

-Emt1581

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[Blk2015GT]

Even though I'm pretty well sold on the GT w/ PP, I have been looking in to the SS and still have to drive one to compare the two. So I don't know a great deal on differences between the different SS trims. However, when calling up the dealer right down the street from my house a few hours ago, he quoted me a price of $49k for a 2SS! :eyebulge:

Now if a 2SS is the equivalent of a GT Premium w/ PP... that's a significant difference in pricing so it doesn't seem like an apples to apples comparison.

If the 2SS is NOT the equivalent of a GT Premium w/PP...is it closer to a GT350 in how it's equipped and performance?

Again, far from an expert, but I'm getting the impression that, years being equal, it's no longer a fair comparison to put the Mustang and Camaro side by side trim for trim.

Just my .02 after an hour or two of looking at the Camaro.

-Emt1581

Very possible, a 2SS STARTS at $42,300.

In comparison you can check every option box (nav, rear backup sensing, adaptive cruise control, premier trim, enhanced security package, and Recaros) on a GT premium w/ PP and still only be at $44,500.


And FYI, you can join EAA or MCA for $50 and get x-plan pricing which knocks the Mustang down another $3k or so whatever options you want on it. It's invoice pricing.

 

[68fbjjz109]

Stuff the average daily driver buyer doesn't care about though.

The multiple thousand dollar cost increase (over the Mustang) to appease the 1% of enthusiast buyers was the wrong move. I would rather add what I want to a car than be bombarded by an expensive base price or packages with a lot of crap to get 1 item in it. The Mustang did that right- base or premium, non-PP or PP; and the rest of the options single add-ons.

To be honest little of that cost is in performance. Most of what is aluminum on the 6GC is aluminum on the ATS/CTS. That is just how that platform is designed. There are a few exceptions, not many though.

There is cost in getting the V8 into the Alpha, but that was happening regardless.

I would say it is mostly feature content, and better tire selection. Seeing as brakes are still a dealer option.

At some point when I get all the info. I'll compare the 6GC and 6GM by components, and attribute the 6GC use of aluminum and weight savings over the mustang to see what a mustang with the same material selection strategy would weigh. Though I still think Ford does more with less, except for cams. I would venture the Mustang would once again have the weight advantage if Ford decided to do that.

 

[Emt1581]

Very possible, a 2SS STARTS at $42,300.

In comparison you can check every option box (nav, rear backup sensing, adaptive cruise control, premier trim, enhanced security package, and Recaros) on a GT premium w/ PP and still only be at $44,500.


And FYI, you can join EAA or MCA for $50 and get x-plan pricing which knocks the Mustang down another $3k or so whatever options you want on it. It's invoice pricing.

Wait...I thought X-Plan was only for friends/family of Ford workers...no? Either way, not sure what EAA or MCA stands for. A little help would be much appreciated!

EDIT: I'm guessing MCA is Mustang Club of America. I didn't see a list of what the discounts would be off a GT, they just link to fordpartners.com which requires a login. And if the price is $3k off MSRP, both dealers I'm looking at are well below that. Now if it's $3k below whatever final deal we work out...holy crap!!!...I'll join!!


Back to the comparison...given the prices the local dealer and you shared...it just doesn't seem like the V8 Mustang and Camaro are fair to compare anymore because of the price difference.

I mean if we threw a super charger and a superior suspension in the GT... we'd be apples to apples when it came to price, or at least closer than the two models stand now. No?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

 

[1320']

Wait...I thought X-Plan was only for friends/family of Ford workers...no? Either way, not sure what EAA or MCA stands for. A little help would be much appreciated!

EDIT: I'm guessing MCA is Mustang Club of America. I didn't see a list of what the discounts would be off a GT, they just link to fordpartners.com which requires a login. And if the price is $3k off MSRP, both dealers I'm looking at are well below that. Now if it's $3k below whatever final deal we work out...holy crap!!!...I'll join!!


Back to the comparison...given the prices the local dealer and you shared...it just doesn't seem like the V8 Mustang and Camaro are fair to compare anymore because of the price difference.

I mean if we threw a super charger and a superior suspension in the GT... we'd be apples to apples when it came to price, or at least closer than the two models stand now. No?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

EAA=Experimental Aircraft Association

MCA=Mustang Club of America

http://www.mustang.org/

Joining the MCA will allow you the credentials to generate a MCA X-Plan PIN to present to the dealer.

To see what you'd pay go to www.fordpartner.com, enter in code MC405 and you'll be taken to a special build and price. You won't be able to generate a PIN without proof of MCA membership, but you'll be able to option any Mustang out and see what you'll pay pre TTL

Note: You can't use X-Plan on any Shelby or SVT cars or any of the remaining 50th LE cars. It's also only good on NEW cars, not used. You can use the X-Plan pin for other FoMoCo cars/trucks (IE..you could get a FX4 F150 but not a new SVT Raptor F150)

 

[Emt1581]

EAA=Experimental Aircraft Association

MCA=Mustang Club of America

http://www.mustang.org/

Joining the MCA will allow you the credentials to generate a MCA X-Plan PIN to present to the dealer.

To see what you'd pay go to www.fordpartner.com, enter in code MC405 and you'll be taken to a special build and price. You won't be able to generate a PIN without proof of MCA membership, but you'll be able to option any Mustang out and see what you'll pay pre TTL

Note: You can't use X-Plan on any Shelby cars or any of the remaining 50th LE cars.

Much appreciated...PM sent!

-Emt1581

 

[1320']

Much appreciated...PM sent!

-Emt1581

No problem, glad to help :ford:

 

[Blk2015GT]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...8SkM8n4wGjRFvpDxhrt980CNQ/edit#gid=1346768014

Someone made a spreadsheet where you can tick the options and it shows you xplan vs MSRP. X-plan is invoice price- what the dealer paid for the car.

It's very possible you got a better deal without Xplan too; though far under is rare.

 

[Blk2015GT]

To be honest little of that cost is in performance. Most of what is aluminum on the 6GC is aluminum on the ATS/CTS. That is just how that platform is designed. There are a few exceptions, not many though.

There is cost in getting the V8 into the Alpha, but that was happening regardless.

I would say it is mostly feature content, and better tire selection. Seeing as brakes are still a dealer option.

At some point when I get all the info. I'll compare the 6GC and 6GM by components, and attribute the 6GC use of aluminum and weight savings over the mustang to see what a mustang with the same material selection strategy would weigh. Though I still think Ford does more with less, except for cams. I would venture the Mustang would once again have the weight advantage if Ford decided to do that.

Regardless of the reason, it's priced too high. Getting into a V8 cloth manual trans at $37,300 (before tax, destination, etc) is just too high for a lot of people when you can get into a GT for $32,300k.

You're pushing $40k out the door for a bare bones 1SS. You're only pushing $35k for a GT manual base.

$5k is a lot of money to the average person who isn't tracking their car and just want a sporty daily driver.



And Ford 100% can lighten the Mustang. They did it to the F150 with the aluminum body; they have the tech already to do so. The F150 lost 450 pounds just in a higher strength steel frame and aluminum body. It took GM to where it is now to only beat the Mustang by 20 pounds. If Ford goes aluminum body it could undercut the 6g Camaro weight by a lot. Even if they could get half the F150 weight reduction you're talking about a 3500 pound V8 Mustang.

 

[ZaneWayne]

Regardless of the reason, it's priced too high. Getting into a V8 cloth manual trans at $37,300 (before tax, destination, etc) is just too high for a lot of people when you can get into a GT for $32,300k.

You're pushing $40k out the door for a bare bones 1SS. You're only pushing $35k for a GT manual base.

$5k is a lot of money to the average person who isn't tracking their car and just want a sporty daily driver.

The Mustang is 33,295 and the Camaro is 37,295 both with destination. A difference of 4k. But, the Camaro comes with 20 inch rims, 4 pot brakes all around and basically the PP package built in. So the Ford is packaged as a cheaper car, but it does not come with everything the Camaro does base to base.

 

[Blk2015GT]

The Mustang is 33,295 and the Camaro is 37,295 both with destination. A difference of 4k. But, the Camaro comes with 20 inch rims, 4 pot brakes all around and basically the PP package built in. So the Ford is packaged as a cheaper car, but it does not come with everything the Camaro does base to base.

You neglect the 98% of the general public who buy a V8 to buy a V8 sports car, not to track it like the 1-2% of forum enthusiasts. They'll take $4k cheaper rather than brakes and rims.

Id venture to guess if you saw the trim breakdowns from sales in 2015 that the non-PP outsold the PP 2 or 3 to 1.

I'd (and Im sure a lot of the population) rather have the option to add those items on rather than be forced into the big price increase.

Ford got it right. Offer a true base model and then add to it, not a jacked up price base model (not a few hundred bucks more negligible, but $4,000 more) with more on it than a good percent of people will care about as daily drivers.

 

[Nasty99z28]

You neglect the 98% of the general public who buy a V8 to buy a V8 sports car, not to track it like the 1-2% of forum enthusiasts. They'll take $4k cheaper rather than brakes and rims.

Id venture to guess if you saw the trim breakdowns from sales in 2015 that the non-PP outsold the PP 2 or 3 to 1.

I'd (and Im sure a lot of the population) rather have the option to add those items on rather than be forced into the big price increase.

Ford got it right. Offer a true base model and then add to it, not a jacked up price base model (not a few hundred bucks more negligible, but $4,000 more) with more on it than a good percent of people will care about as daily drivers.

I wonder what the ratio of base v8 to pp v8 is.

 

[68fbjjz109]

And Ford 100% can lighten the Mustang. They did it to the F150 with the aluminum body; they have the tech already to do so. The F150 lost 450 pounds just in a higher strength steel frame and aluminum body. It took GM to where it is now to only beat the Mustang by 20 pounds. If Ford goes aluminum body it could undercut the 6g Camaro weight by a lot. Even if they could get half the F150 weight reduction you're talking about a 3500 pound V8 Mustang.

They most certainly can. But the F150 is a much different business case. Way easier to amortize cost in a vehicles when its volume is 5x the Mustang.

Ford is quite fond of composites as well. And the GT is also evidence of that.

It's all about dat money.

 

[1320']

Q: Why is the SS "track ready" with all the extra coolers?

A: Because it has to be. C7's with the A8 transmission (before the cooling revision) were overheating and going into limp mode when wrung out on the track. Without the additional coolers the Gen 6 with the A8 wouldn't likely have even been able to handle spirited driving on the streets. It's not that they wanted to make it "track capable" out of the box, it's because they couldn't figure out a way to keep the drivetrain effective otherwise.

GM literally cannot remove all the coolers and "track ready" components without basically rendering the A8 SS impotent. What GM could have done is not make the RS package standard, that would have reduced the price of the SS by about $1,000.

Frankly it would have made for a more attractive pricing point and feature list for someone who wants the lightest Camaro SS possible (a 1SS) and true performance oriented tires and wheels (19") since the rotors and calipers are smaller now, you don't need 20"'s to fit over them, you can run 19".

They could also have made the HUD, larger center screen and reconfigurable gauge screen optional on the 1SS to cut the price another $700 or so.

Those alone would have put the 1SS at around $35,700 to start..and right about $37,000 with the auto.

 

[1320']

And Ford 100% can lighten the Mustang. They did it to the F150 with the aluminum body; they have the tech already to do so. The F150 lost 450 pounds just in a higher strength steel frame and aluminum body. It took GM to where it is now to only beat the Mustang by 20 pounds. If Ford goes aluminum body it could undercut the 6g Camaro weight by a lot. Even if they could get half the F150 weight reduction you're talking about a 3500 pound V8 Mustang.

The F150 went from all steel body to all aluminum, there was nothing but weight to lose.

The Mustang already has aluminum fenders and an aluminum hood. Going to ALL aluminum might only save around 115lbs, not 225+. That would still take a GT base down to 3,595lbs curb, a GTPP to 3,630 and a GT auto to 3,605. Essentially going back to S197 weights.

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